What Attorneys Actually Look for in Expert Witnesses – Smith & Marjanovic Law in Albuquerque, NM

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Tadeo (Ted): [00:00:00] Taylor, thank you so much. it’s great to have you here. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Taylor: Thank you for inviting me.

Tadeo (Ted): for people that don’t know you, please talk about you, your law firm, and who is it that you like working with

Taylor: I’m Taylor Smith. my law firm is Smith and Marjanovic Law out here in Albuquerque, New Mexico. We are always looking for police practice experts, people who can opine as to, police practices. And we’re always looking for, doctors to help us out too.

Primarily, we have a lot of ortho cases that we often need. assistance with, and when it comes to experts and how we would like people to approach us, the closer, the better. That’s another thing that we look out to. sometimes we have cases that we need experts on. We need somebody who, it’s not gonna cost an arm and a leg to get out here to testify at trial because we’re often always thinking of our clients,bottom line in the case.

Tadeo (Ted): And that means the world to us to have repeat clients come back, or even, knowing that we’re not just running up a big tab. [00:01:00] On expert costs, and we invite anybody who may be able to help us to reach out and again, call us as opposed to, reaching out on LinkedIn. Okay, awesome. And so it sounds like you work with a lot of experts who are police officers, not necessarily engineers. or more on the academic side.

Taylor: That’s correct. we have a lot of, I would say our practice is about 50% personal injury and 50% civil rights work. and we’re always looking for people, for police practices, for a myriad of different issues too. And again, going back to, experts staying in their lane, if we want to call it that.

we look for. Experts who, if it’s a SWAT case, we need a SWAT team member, right? Or somebody who, supervised swats, team members. that’s what we’re always looking for. Just as, as close to apples when we’re with what we’re dealing with in our cases for our experts. and we really do need experts in New Mexico.

I hear it time and time again, not only from our firm, [00:02:00] but other firms in the state. That we just need good expert work and it’s really hard for us to find experts at times, especially when we’re going through, like third party, administrators for experts. and if we could have people reach out to us instead, we would appreciate that and it makes it a lot easier for us.

Tadeo (Ted): if I run into any police officers down there that do good work, I’ll definitely let them know about you.

but to get right to it, just to recap, I help expert witnesses with their websites and their digital marketing, their SEO, and a lot of them had questions about. How attorneys think, what they look for. So that’s where the idea for the podcast came from, and I try to provide as much value to them as possible.

To start with the first question

what makes an expert the right fit for your case?

Taylor: I think when we are looking for the right fit for any expert. , That’s gonna provide any opinions for us. Usually, , we’re looking for somebody who is an adv, [00:03:00] not an advocate per se, but can help us get to issues that we might not see, right? I’ve had experts who say, give me the information that you want.

And I say, well, a medical expert, for example, I never wore a white coat. I still don’t wear a white coat. And so sometimes I need people to pick up on issues that I’m also not seeing. And not to say that some of our experts don’t do that, but the experts that do are generally the ones that we retain in the future for other cases as well.

I think another thing that we look for too is just thorough experts. I’ve seen all kinds of different expert reports, and primarily, there’s some that get down into the nooks and crannies of the issues of the case rather than these 30,000 level opinions.

So just detail oriented experts are probably the, the ones that we look for primarily.

Tadeo (Ted): And just to make sure I understood correctly, instead of the 30,000 foot reports, you like, the more [00:04:00] detailed oriented right.

Taylor: A hundred percent and some, there’s a time and place for all of them. sometimes when we are looking for a consulting opinion, we may want that 30,000 view foot view until we get into discovery and take depositions and things like that. but for the most part. what is most persuasive to a jury?

An adjuster or another attorney is an expert who just knows the case very well, and I think that’s shown in those reports that really get down to the nitty gritty.

Tadeo (Ted): so the expert is not there to just, provide facts, but it seems like also to maybe not necessarily advise, like influence your decision, but to, like you said, to say things that you don’t know or see yourself.

Taylor: Yeah, I mean, we do, we don’t do a large amount of med mal, but what I would say is, you know, I, I’ve had a med mal cases in the past where I think this is the issue. And I’ve had experts that we’ve, you know, used many times come back and say, Hey man, actually you, that’s a red [00:05:00] herring. That wasn’t a problem.

But guess what? I found these three other issues that you really need to focus your efforts on. And that’s the kind of,I guess the experts that we’re always looking for are those that can really do a detailed report, but also sitting down and saying. You know, I really did flesh this out. I did a little more research on my end and this was a problem.

also another thing is experts who admit what they can or cannot do. Sometimes there are those experts that try to go a little bit further than where they should. And, uh, any good expert will say, I can get you this far, but you may need another expert for whatever reason.

Tadeo (Ted): So going the extra mile, but staying in your lane at the same time

Exactly, because we don’t want to be caught after an expert deadline is passed and figure out that we need an additional expert when it’s well past the deadline. That’s an attorney’s worst nightmare probably other than a statute of limitations. Okay. Thank you. Think about, the last time you had to find an expert outside your network. [00:06:00] So when you find an expert online, you’re at their website. do you go straight to their CV or what’s the first thing that catches your attention?

Taylor: This is gonna sound bad, but honestly I start with their photo. not to say that we would pick an expert solely based off of a photo, but we are always looking for people that are, look very presentable. And I’ve seen experts that have professional headshots. I also have seen people that. Don’t have more of a professional one.

So that’s usually where I start. And then immediately after that, it’s the cv. after we’ve reviewed the cv, we take a look to see, again, going back to a medical expert, seeing which, what they’ve done in the past, whether it’s surgeries or teaching or what, what have you. so the CV plays a huge role.

The one place I do not go for experts though is LinkedIn. I have a LinkedIn account. I check it from time to time and I know there must be some push for people, to say, Hey, link with attorneys, and then send them a message on LinkedIn. [00:07:00] And I think that would work. But there’s been such an influx.

In my inbox in LinkedIn every time I log in . And it’s overwhelming and I wanna close out the app right away. so in terms of networking with experts, I think that’s one of the worst ways in my, practice of finding experts is I would prefer a phone call to be honest.

if somebody called me and say, Hey. I’m this type of expert. You do personal injury work. I’d love to talk to you about ortho consultations or what it may be. I think the inbox, will get ignored, but if I have a phone call, I’ll always pick it up and talk to them and hear them out.

Tadeo (Ted): nothing beats a good old cold call, right.

Taylor: Yeah. And we may be busy, but our paralegals will put it on our calendar. We’ll be like, I should just call that person, or, you know, I had it in a case there was a. An expert who had called me one time and I just didn’t have that case. But sure enough, three or four months later, I, I had a case like that and I said, well, shoot, that guy had the initiative to give me a call.

Tadeo (Ted): So I picked up the phone and called him right back and said, I didn’t have it then, but I do now. So let me [00:08:00] hear you out, Awesome. I’m glad you mentioned that about LinkedIn ’cause I know, a lot of them think, that’s a place to optimize, but it sounds like it just got oversaturated now.

Taylor: I would agree with that a hundred percent. And like I said, I opened the app and it’s 16 notifications and then a million additional, Hey, I want to connect and. it just immediately makes me wanna just not reach out to anybody. I feel overstimulated, I guess is the best way to put it.

Tadeo (Ted): it makes sense. Okay. the next question I had is. Actually, let me, can you see, lemme share my screen. I, I got like a specific question here.

Taylor: Sure.

Tadeo (Ted): Okay. this is an expert’s website. I got this three call to actions here. this is to. to send a form. It scrolls down to the contact form. Then we have the CV download and the phone number, and sometimes I wonder if it’s too much, if I should just have maybe two or maybe the phone number [00:09:00] instead of, a button that takes you to the contact form. I’d be curious to get your thoughts on this.

Taylor: I’m actually okay with it. I, uh, I, I wouldn’t mind this. It’s actually pretty simplistic. Um, I, I like that it has the actual phone number sometimes on certain websites. It just fills out a form. I’ve had experts do that, and again, I think even though I’m a younger attorney. I like to pick up the phone and try to get ahold of somebody rather than submit like an online form.

And that also, at least in New Mexico, creates some issues too. When it comes to attorneys that are looking for experts here in state court, we have to turn over all of our correspondence from experts. And so oftentimes we want to get on the phone as opposed to sending a detailed correspondence back and forth between us and the experts.

’cause it could become discoverable in most of our cases.

Tadeo (Ted): so that’s more work as well, if anything.

Taylor: it does. And us keeping track of it. And then it creates an issue of like, we don’t have it, but the expert [00:10:00] does. And I don’t know where that online report goes, but at the end of the day in making sure that we have practice above board, we wanna make sure we have all of our correspondence in one place so we can provide it to the other side later.

Tadeo (Ted): Okay. Got it. Thank you. question I had is. Sometimes the experts may have the download their CV behind a form submission. And I was curious if that as an attorney and as a consumer,you reaching out to the experts, does that deter you from reaching out to them or does it not matter really?

You would do it either way.

Taylor: I think it would deter me, not, I understand we’re all professionals and you want that, ability to screen, certain intakes as we call them. but in terms of expert services, again, sometimes us attorneys will find ourselves thinking that we’re gonna get a case resolved.

Ultimately have to get an expert and shore things up relatively quickly and just picking up the phone, calling somebody and having a another person [00:11:00] on the other line telling us, Hey, he’s busy. Go look somebody else. Instead of just having a form that we submitted and waiting. At that point, if I’m waiting for a response, I’m probably already gone to another expert who had their CV available and will pick up the phone.

Tadeo (Ted): Thank you. Yeah, I know some of them do want that, , others don’t and it’s always curious that, so thank you for clarifying that.

Taylor: and us attorneys,we’re full of our own opinions too, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I’m just one person.

Tadeo (Ted): No. True. Okay. I know there’s a big thing in expert witness work. some people do it as a side gig. Others, do it full time and there’s a mix of both, When evaluating an expert, how important is it to you that they see their expert witness work, as as a professional part of their business, rather than just a side gig or a side hustle?

Taylor: Ooh. That’s a tough question. ’cause I think, for me. [00:12:00] It depends on the case, but, I’ll give you an example. So I do a lot of civil rights cases and oftentimes there’s not active law enforcement that provides expert opinions. And so it’s just something we don’t come across. and so generally those experts we’re relying on folks who have, 30 plus years in law enforcement experience who are now retired or maybe they’re in administrative role.

So they do have that kind of side hustle, but they’re not boots on the ground officers now. that’s always, I don’t think it really dissuades me. I actually prefer for most of my experts to be doing the work that they’re testifying about still. and largely that’s because they’re usually more up to date through their own continuing education requirements.

And so I prefer, an expert who is working and also doing expert work, at least for my cases. it wouldn’t turn me off one way or the other. Like I said, I think it depends on the expert. But we generally have that preference.

Tadeo (Ted): just to make sure I understood right, it is better if they have an actual job in their field and the expert witness. It is a [00:13:00] side gig in a way, but they have to treat it with professional respect at the same

Taylor: Yeah. And I think, you know, I’ve deposed a lot of experts and we always try to find any way that we can develop bias. and part of, of that approach, I mean there was a surgeon here in Albuquerque that I’ve deposed a good number of times. And when we’ve deposed him, he hasn’t performed surgery in 15 or 20 years.

he is primarily solely an expert. And so I think that there’s, it can draw bias when it’s presented to a jury at trial saying he has to give good opinions. ’cause if he doesn’t give opinions, he doesn’t make money. So somebody who has that actual profession that they’re performing still while also doing expert work, they’re not relying solely on expert fees.

And I’ll give you an example. I’ve deposed him. He said I was like, how much money do you make a year on your expert opinions? He said, $700,000. And that’s a lot of money and that’s a lot of opinions in a year. And so we would make [00:14:00] arguments at trial, this is his gravy train.

he’s here just to make money and say whatever they pay him to say. so I think those are the thoughts that attorneys have when it comes to their own experts. And you have to be wary of as an attorney too, to not have just what they would consider like a. an armchair expert, right? Instead, I’d rather say you do it every day, right?

I do this every day, and this is why I know what’s going on in my field, and that’s why I have these strong opinions.

Tadeo (Ted): And outside of asking them, how much money do you make as an expert witness? How do you, how do you know if they do expert witness work full time or if they also do their main job as well?

Taylor: I have a standard question about that too. or, I guess a series of questions. I say, Hey, what do you, where do you work? And then they’ll say, I work at this hospital. and then I also have a separate LLC for my expert, opinion work. And I’ll say, okay, what does your, what do your shifts look like at the hospital?

I work, three on four off these hours. [00:15:00] Great. So you’re at the hospital that entire time, and then the rest of the time, how do you spend your time? And then I have them break it down into a percentage, whether it’s my expert or an opposing party’s expert. And so when we’re looking at that, I want them to say, I work my butt off,while I’m at my work.

And then when I’m not there, I like to provide expert opinions. And, just going back to the point of they’re not relying solely on their livelihood for expert testimony.

Tadeo (Ted): And have you ever had anyone lie and say like that they have a job when they don’t and they do full-time expert witness work?

Taylor: I never had anyone lie, but when I was a young attorney, we did have a doctor that was our doctor. and. He testified that he was working, out of a hospital in the state that he lived in, but based off of how much expert work he was doing, it left the image that he may have been doing expert work while on the job too.

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’cause it didn’t make sense in terms of the number of [00:16:00] hours in a day and the allocation of his time and how much money he was making. So it was an unsavory, look of, and I got nervous about that after he was deposed. And that was again, when I was a younger attorney and. Didn’t know what to ask while I was hiring experts,

and on your point, in terms of asking experts, we really do like experts who have varied work in terms of plaintiffs and defendants. it never has to be a perfect 50 50 split. but there should be some division there. ’cause let’s say you’re an expert and you’re being deposed and you say, I only testify for the defense, or I only testify for plaintiffs at that point, there’s an inherent or perceived bias that I only take money from plaintiffs.

I only take money from defen defendants.

Tadeo (Ted): And that’s an interesting point because I talk to a lot of experts. and sometimes they tell me, actually just one that told me that he only does defense work. [00:17:00] And I was like, I don’t think that’s a good thing,

but them doing one side, the main issue is that their opinion is gonna be biased if they only do defendant or plaintiff.

Taylor: Yep. And the only time I would say that was different. Is if you are, let’s say you are a plaintiff’s attorney like me, and I go to somebody I know who is purely a defense attorney, it can help my case. Then I’m sorry, a purely a defense expert that can actually help. where I’ve only did defense, expert opinions in my career.

But today I’m helping a plaintiff. And I think in terms of when we’re looking at the optics of that, it’s like, this must be a very good case. ’cause we have the case, which changed them to give plaintiff’s opinions. And so you can play with that. But if you’re on the same side of where they always testified, that’s where it becomes problematic.

Tadeo (Ted): Oh, okay. Okay. similar to always working with the same attorneys, right? a few times it’s okay, but if it happens year over year [00:18:00] Sounds a little suspicious too.

Taylor: And I’ve had that conversation, when we were talking about me hiring experts, to work on our cases. ’cause we like working with them. We do tell them at the forefront, Hey, you’ve testified a few times for us. We’d love to come back to you. But there is at some point going to be an issue where if the question is asked at.

deposition, and it says you’ve now testified for Mr. Smith. Now in 30 cases in three years, he’s just, again, going back to that, you’re, you have a working relationship with him almost to a joint venture of making money together. and so we do have, experts that we talk to and say, look, we’re gonna just switch it up.

It’s nothing against you. We just need to make sure that we’re not relying solely on you to help us out.

Tadeo (Ted): and it makes sense, right? Because otherwise it goes back to the kind of like a gun for hire type of

Taylor: exactly. No hired guns. We don’t want hired guns.

Tadeo (Ted): Yeah. Okay. one last question, about a nitty-gritty detail on the website. one expert told me one time that [00:19:00] he would rather have his blog section say “articles” instead of “blog” ’cause that would make him look more professional. Would that matter at all to you?

Taylor: No. I think when we’re getting into nomenclature or designation as to whether or not it’s a blog or article, I would look at ’em the same in my perspective. I’d be more looking at the substance of what’s actually contained in either the article or the blog. I think there might be some prejudice, but I think when we talk about blogs, there is a little bit of a built-in nuance when people are doing, when the internet became really big and people doing like travel blogs and things like that, I think.

That may be like a, what do you call it, like a term of art or negative term, because blogging doesn’t sound as professional as an article. obviously if I could have it, I would, I prefer people that are writing journals, but if you’re just writing on but issues, then I don’t care [00:20:00] what it’s called as long as the substance makes sense for what we’re looking for,

Tadeo (Ted): Yeah, that makes sense.

Taylor: but I totally get where maybe where that expert was coming from.

And thank you for having me. I had no idea what we were talking about. I was just excited to talk and this is an issue. and I’m glad you’re, you have your podcast. I was looking at it, yesterday before we were supposed to meet. And this is something that a lot of attorneys struggle with, especially a lot younger attorneys.

And so I’m glad that you’re doing what you’re doing.

Tadeo (Ted): Awesome. thank you so much that a lot. I tried to put in my best effort into helping these experts get found by the right attorneys

Taylor: yeah. Very cool. Well keep at it. and I’ll take,I’ll listen to a few of, your podcast. I saw that, Logan Quirk was on it. and I’ll check that out. And, I’m a big podcast listener and there’s a lot of cool stories to be told. Good luck with all your efforts and reach out anytime too.

Tadeo (Ted): Thank you. Bye.

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